To BANG or not to BANG

[The Dwarf]

What do you think, to bang or not to bang? This is the question that we must ask ourselves. On more than one occasion I have bang-killed someone who doesn't take it and in turn shoots me, runs away, or simple hides behind cover. The "if he moves shoot him" thing doesn't work to well all the time. Some of the time you say bang and they hold the trigger down and hose you and the surrounding area. You do not always have the time to say bang, wait for a responce and then shoot if you do have a person move in a threatening way. The real question is, should we just shoot regardless of distance rather than say bang? The only stipulation to this is that it is at the operators discretion to say bang or not to say bang. Safety must be maintained, this is a must. What kind of compromise can be found in order to maintain safety and yet at the same time improve the Bang kill rules.

[Komissar]

I would like to see the “Bang Kill” rule allowed as an option. I use the bang kill rule dependent upon the individual I intend to kill.
My weapon has been chronoed and found safe on the field where I operate. Also, I should maintain control of myself and my weapon. With these factors, I am allowed to engage my target at no more than pointblank range. No more than one, maybe two shots should suffice. This can injure people if I am without ability to compromise.
I will call “bang” on a target who I consider reliable not to injure me. This is someone who has continuously demonstrated control. I must have belief that my target would not fire at me within a distance in which I would be injured, and will have enough control not to fire when surprised.
What this means to my intended target:

People new to me will be shot, not “bang” killed. No offense, I just don’t know that you won’t light me up.

People who I know, but find a bit twichy will be shot, not “bang” killed. Better you than me.

People I know, and who have demonstrated control are likely to receive a “bang” kill.

It should be stated, that I have the utmost respect for my fellow operators, and in no way want anyone to be injured. This is a game where the participants must take responsibility for participating.
I would like to have more conclusive answers to such an ominous question. It would be great to get to know and trust all the operators I game with, but in this sport there are too many variables. So I will shoot first and expect the same in return, because the fun, far out ways the risk.

[The Dwarf]

In my initial remarks I should have clarified that every time I have had a problem with the Bang kill is with new or unexperienced operators. For the sake of safety I have a personal problem shooting most people up close, but the more and more these situations occure the more comfortable I become with blasting someone at point blank. (making sure not to hurt them though) I do not want to be responcible for hurting someone who is out there just wanting to have fun like I am.

[SCRAMBLE]

I feel that Bang Kills are a very valuable addition to the safety of Airsoft players; however, I feel they are abused. Bang Kills are a courtesy to a fellow player, not an “insta-kill” to be thrown during a fight. In my personal experience I have been Bang Killed more than I would like to admit, some I am grateful for, and others not so much. A GOOD EXAMPLE of a Bang Kill was demonstrated by FlapJack on the AIM field. I was laying in a tire rut waiting in ambush for a squad walking down the road. I was “very well hidden” and completely focused. As the enemy team rounded the bend into my line of fire I heard “Bang Kill, Scramble”. I looked over my shoulder to find FlapJack had somehow creped up to within five feet of me. I was completely oblivious to his presents. FlapJack could have shot me but as a skilled player FlapJack properly executed a Bang Kill that I was more than happy to accept. A BAD EXAMPLE of a Bang Kill was also at the AIM field, not by an AIM player but by a player who’s identity shall remain classified. I was defending the flag when an individual ran for the flag. I fired on this individual then perused them through the brush firing on them as I ran. I hear a yell and the individual stopped running. Assuming I had hit them, I very carefully I continued forward to check their status. The individual was standing very calmly reloading their gun; I as walked up to check on this person the individual took off running for the flag again. Confused I fired again striking this person in the back; they spun around again very angry yelling that I was already dead. How was I dead? It turned out that the yell I had herd while they where running through the brush was a Bang Kill directed at me.
I give these two examples to define my opinion regarding Bang Kills which is that Bang Kills are a courtesy and not an “insta-kill” or a nuke to be dropped on an enemy during a shoot out. A Bang Kill is used when the enemy does not know you are there AND you have the uninhibited capability to shoot them AND you are close enough to be worried about possible harm to the player. Bang Kills are a complicated subject that must be carefully considered by each player so they are prepared to act when the situation presents itself.

[The Dwarf]

Bang kills are essential, but also discretionary which makes them hard. They are totaly situationaly dependant. Like when we are playing assault on Red One, you just can't be calling bang kills in the trenches, it would make them stupid, so you have to shoot the guy and make sure that you are still safe, a bit of a conundrum. The biggest thing is requiring full face masks, if this was enforced then we could safely remove bang kills. But with guys having open mouths with exposed white smiles, ie Sarge, you have a safety problem. Wear masks, no bang kills required, no masks and you have to be able to bang kill guys in certain situations.

[Komissar]

Shoot first, "bang kill" survivors.
Sorry, just in a very good mood. I'll stop now.

[Sting]

Bank Kills Suck! Not really. I say just shoot them in the butt or ?? not the face. I say no shooting at close range when the guy won't show you more than his face. Otherwise POP him. (It only hurts for a few days!)
Later,
Sting

[The Dwarf]

This is one of the main reasons that we are trying to figure this out, most people don't like Bang kills, giving or receiving. I have heard just as many people that get GRRRrrr over being bang killed in some situations that they believe is uncalled for. For instance, some guy runs by your location, you are in a bunker or some hard cover and calls bang at you but you believe that you have pretty good cover, so you would rather battle it out, a bang kill negates good cover in some instances and that sucks because what is the point of taking good cover if someone has an OPERATOR-seeking 6mm BB that negates cover and kills automatically. It sounds more like something out of a bad video game rather than a combat simulation. I mean, if you were the Predator, or some other equally bad-@$$ super-alien-dude it would be different, but we are just a bunch of meat bags out running around like sneaky chickens in a coop. We try but its not quite good enough.....even though I was born on another planet this does not exclude me.

Sting said:

Bank Kills Suck! Not really. I say just shoot them in the butt or ?? not the face. I say no shooting at close range when the guy won't show you more than his face. Otherwise POP him. (It only hurts for a few days!)
Later, Sting

[Komissar]

I am absolutely rolling! You guys are great. I couldn't agree more. It's not the concept of bang kills that gives them the bad reputation. It is the misuse. Personally, I can take getting shot, just like you guys, but I do appreciate the "bang" kill when it's used properly.
So, do you think we could run games without "bang" kill rules? What do we do when someone is close? Shoot them? I am willing to take a shot or two, even point blank, but if you go full auto on me at that close! . . . .
I'll bleed.

[Edric]

Sneaking up on someone, taping them on the shoulder, and whispering "bang" Thats fine by me.

Standing 20 feet away and screaming bang as you point your gun at a base? Not so ok...

[Flapjack]

Bang kills tend to be more appropriate when they are used when an enemy is sneaking up on another player. When the receiver of the bang kill isn't aware of the other player's presence, then the bang kills seem to be ok. However when two players are aware of each others presence, the bang kills seem to be disputed more and people tend to get very pissed off. In the second scenario the bang kills are like "insta-kills" as Scramble puts it and I agree that this type of bang kill should be ruled out. Too much abuse over this particular type. I would tend to shoot people in the back or lower body as a substitute for bang kills taking care not to damage the other person but making sure they take their hit. I think the only time you should consider a bang kill is when the other player doesn't know you there, It then becomes a tactic to stay quiet and sneaky while still eliminating an enemy player. If the enemy knows your location or you are actively exchanging fire then a bang kill should not be used for it would be considered an "insta-kill" to most. I find I'm much more willing to take a bang kill when I was unaware there was a player sneaking up behind me than when we are shooting back and forth and missing mind you until someone yells bang. Also, in the heat of battle people tend to be a bit more jumpy and easily startled, especially if you sneaking up to them and you are facing them. As soon as they recognize you are an enemy they are likely not to hear your bang kill and proceed to unload on you. For this reason I again state that bang kills should only be used when the other player doesn't know you are there and it also helps if you are behind your opponent when this happens. Much less chance of being shot from a twitch or jumpy player.

[Sting]

I do think there are times when the "bang kill" can be appropriate. I was inside a base in an upstairs room when we were over-run. 4 or 5 guys came in to the base not knowing I was there. I waited till they calmed down and started up the ladder when I pulled out my pistol and thought about just shooting them all! That would have been a blast, but there were young kids in the mix and I decided to BANG kill them. They were OK about it but I do believe they would have honored it better if there were some pain involved. One of them stepped outside and shot me point blank in the leg through a crack in the wood. Next time probably "white lead" will be flying!
Later,
Sting

[Edric]

Speaking of bang kills, the April 11th game did have some examples of some great bang kills. Both on AJ and on Komissar. Responsible use of the bang kill option should never be looked down upon.